HELLO. SO MANY PEOPLE WHO SUBMIT THEIR ANSWER TO THE QUESTIONNAIRE BELOW ARE USING A BROWSER OTHER THAN INTERNET EXPLORER. YOU CANNOT GET THE BEST FROM MY WEB PAGES WITH BROWSERS LIKE FIREFOX FOR EXAMPLE.

DID YOU KNOW THAT HMS GANGES HAD A MAST BEFORE THE CURRENT MAST WAS ERECTED ? Start off your adventure by looking at these few pictures [two views of the first mast] and then click BACK to return here.

OLD AND RARE GANGES PHOTOGRAPHS

Then, have a look at this file, once again clicking on BACK to get back here for the rest of the story about the Mast

GANGES BOYS - death through misadventure

  SOUND ON ?...and DO THINGS IN ORDER, TOP DOWN i.e. make your choice on the 'Mast Spirit' animation then complete and SUBMIT the Questionnaire, then, print two pictures, then Final Mast Movie,  then "NOW Click Here".  Thanks and Enjoy.

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IF YOU DON'T HAVE A "FLASH PLAYER" on your machine, no problem, simply download a FREE one from this site <http://www.adobe.com/go/getflash>

Before we start the Mast bit, have you read my many Ganges pages on this site? In this compendium you will find most of them but you will need a great deal of time to read them all because there is so much GANGES COMPENDIUM 1.  If you have a few spare weeks, you could go on and read other NAVAL files which you will find here OTHER NAVAL FILES TO READ IF YOU.  Go on, have a break from the Forum and either educate yourself or re-live your navy days.  Also,  there has been talk of a desire to have a model of Ganges built so we can all stand around it and point to buildings etc.  That may never happen, BUT, in the absence of a model, I have engineered AN ANIMATED TOUR of the establishment and also A ZOOM AND PAN PLAN of the Establishment,  both of which ARE THE best internet movie shows in town tonight !  They are readily available here [Animated = HMS GANGES ANIMATED TOUR.gif] and [Zoom = GANGES IN VISIO - wait for the images to appear, and then just zoom in an out and move the red square around the plan: simple as that].

NOW TO THE MAST STORY

What you choose in this animation will be automatically transmitted to me when you submit your completed questionnaire below.

DON'T let the Mast {the breaker} lean or fall out [DOWN] to switch the Ganges Spirit off - keep it proud and upright, a BEACON for all to see and to REMEMBER.

Surprisingly,  of the thousands of boys who trained at HMS GANGES in the last 50 years, say from 1950 {58 years ago} making the eldest boys today at younger than 75, less than 4000 are Members of the HMS Ganges Association.  By a crude calculation, the period is, as stated, from 1950 until 1974 approximately [a couple of years or so before closing in 1976] namely 24 years, with, as we were regularly told, roughly 2000 boys in the Establishment at any one time.  That would mean 48,000 boys who went through boys'/juniors' training.  The male death rate in the UK is known and calculated by the Government to the year 2002 which is:-

Death rates

Male death rates are slightly down since 1998.

Table showing male deaths by age - United Kingdom, 1998 and 2002

(Death rates per 1000 in each age-group)

  under 1 1-15 16-34 35-54 55-64 65-74 75+ All ages
1998 6.4 0.2 1.0 3.0 12.5 34.8 110.1 10.9
2002 6.0 0.2 0.9 2.7 10.1 28.0 96.2 10.0

Sources: Office for National Statistics, Social Trends 30 (The Stationery Office; London, 2000) for 1998 and Office for National Statistics, Social Trends 34 (The Stationery Office; London, 2004) for 2002.
web site for these details is http://www.menshealthforum.org.uk/userpage1.cfm?item_id=1212#death Men's Health Forum

Now if we took this table as read for 2002 - overall, of all ages, 10 males die per 1000 males per annum }{which equals 0.01} - and we made it much worse, say ten times worse when 100 males per 1000 died {which equals 0.1}, and we projected it back to the start of our period i.e., to 1950 applying it to each year until 2008 {58 years}, the projected number of deaths would have been 58 x 100 = 5800 deaths per 58,000 males {58 x 1000}  Of those 48,000 Ganges trained boy's/junior's, 0.1 of 48,000 = 4,800 deaths.  Erring on the side of the Grim Reapers figures, that's 5000 gone to pastures new having "crossed the bar" and on the side of the Association Membership Secretary's figures that's 4000 Members, leaving {48,000 - 9,000} some 39,000 ex Ganges boys out there who do not belong to the Association. I know that some of you might dispute my projections, but however you tamper with my figures, it still leave  tens of thousands of boys, who, for whatever reason, have shunned the Association. Two further points on this subject: first off, our population is approximately 59 million, and given that approximately half are males, the number of male deaths per annum is 0.01 of 29,500,000 = 295,000 - a lot of funerals ! Second point, I can't speak about the 39,000 non-Members I have written about, but I have witnessed first hand the performance of the few {4000 Members} and I am afraid that their drinking habits might dramatically alter the Membership in the coming years !! Look here National Statistics Online

Given that Association Members can vote on the say of their CORE BUSINESS [which includes the Mast] and that they can discuss or talk about its fortunes at their Divisional Meetings, and that the VAST MAJORITY [the 39'ers - 39,000 ex Ganges Boys] would have no say on the issue, here is an opportunity for you to state your case [as it were] by spending a couple of moments to send me your comments. In return for your submission, I would first acknowledge it immediately, then I would run a database [for interest as much as anything else].  After a suitable period, assuming at least one of my many readers submits an answer, I would publish the database results on this page.

So here are a few questions about the Ganges Mast.

This questionnaire relates to those who HAD TO CLIMB THE MAST as part of their PART ONE Training.  Ganges officers, rating instructors and ship's company did not have to {though some may have done so} and as such, are not included in my survey.

This animation ABOVE  is an integral part of my questionnaire.  When you have made your SIMPLE CHOICE of  'for' or 'against' complete the questionnaire below and submit.  The outcome of your choice as a FOR or AGAINST will come to me with your alphanumeric answers in the boxes below.

Which year did you join the MAIN Establishment ? What month did you join the MAIN Establishment?
What Division were you in? What Mess and what Class were you in on first joining the MAIN?
Where you back classed? Into what Division, Class & Mess?
What was your Branch? What was your Rate on leaving Ganges?
When did you leave Ganges - Year and Month? Where were you drafted to?
What was the name of your MAIN Instructor? What was the name of your MAIN Divisional Officer?
Are you a MEMBER of the Ganges Association? Are you a MEMBER of any Ganges Division?
Did you ever take part in the FORMAL manning of the Mast? If YES, when?
Did you climb higher than the Devils Elbow for RECREATION If so, approximately how many times during your stay a Shotley?
How often do you Browse the Association website? Do you take part on the Association Forum?
Do you want to see the Mast repaired and thereafter kept in its original position? Do you want to see the Mast repaired and moved to a more "friendly" site?
Do you think that "using" it in London for the Olympics is a good idea? If you have answered YES to the last three questions, who should pay for it?
Assuming [as one must] that the funds will not be forthcoming,  what do YOU think should happen to the MAST and to the SITE?

You can also add anything here that you wish to mention, not just about the Mast.
Thank you for completing the Questionnaire.

 Now please click on the requisite button. 

 

So much has been written and said about the Mast at the former training establishment HMS GANGES, and much of it is "pie in the sky", poles away from realism!  I thought that I would add my little bit to a theme on a subject I used to loathe when I was a young boy {and still do I suppose} although as one grows old, one forgets about the bad old days and the fantasising starts to creep in supplanting all that we held dear in brain and mind alike, which we called MATURITY.  Then, we were neither young nor old, so we were able to comment on the "silly" things done by youngsters and the elderly presupposing that we knew all the answers and that our way was always correct.  True to form, some of the elderly are still doing "silly" things by proposing preposterous remedies to all that ails this now time expired pile of wood, rope and wire.  I personally think that the best example of this is the proposal to use the mast for the opening ceremony for the 2012 Olympics in London.  At first I poo-pooed the idea [even though  the Government is chucking money at everything in the hope to stimulate the nation, so why not give a couple of millions to a transport company to take the mast to East London,  and anther couple to the paddies {or is it illegal immigrant brickies nowadays]  to erect it, but then I had a brain wave !  Why not, I thought, man the mast [as is proposed] by the original 75 people [see the HMS GANGES MAST video in a minute] with each one being of a different nationality [and dressed accordingly] representing a unified and multicultural Britain {!!!!!!}  Then I realised that this wouldn't work because there is not enough room on the mast for all of them to be represented.   Pity really - instead of  flying the only flag [ensign] it has even known,  we could have dressed it overall with all the flags of  multicultural {!!!!!} Britain with the intention of outshining dear old Beijing.

Now have a look at my movie FIRST CLICKING ON YOUR REFRESH BUTTON TO RE-START IT <this is a Flash file in which are two SOUND BYTES, one half way through and one at the end, so you will need speakers>.  These two pictures {over on the left} are an integral part of the movie.  However, it might be a good idea to PRINT them first so that you can use a hard copy  to follow the movie in more detail. AFTER THE VIDEO continue scrolling down to continue reading.

Click to enlarge Click to enlarge

 

 

NOW CLICK HERE to watch my farewell to the Mast of HMS Ganges, after which, CLICK on your BACK BUTTON  to return here to complete reading below. 

PLEASE PONDER ON THE FATE OF THE MAST AT THE SITE OF THE FORMER TRAINING ESTABLISHMENT HMS GANGES.  IS IT WORTH SAVING ?  IS IT FINANCIALLY VIABLE TO REPAIR IN-SITU ?  IS THE COST FOR REPAIR AND RELOCATION TO A DIFFERENT SITE  PROHIBITIVELY EXPENSIVE ?  NOTHING OF THE ORIGINAL HMS VICTORY IS LEFT:  ITS VIRTUALLY MADE OF NEW WOOD AND ROPE, BUT IRRESPECTIVE OF THE COST, AND HOW IT IS FUNDED, IT IS CONSIDERED SAVEABLE BECAUSE  IT IS A NATIONAL ICON.  WOULD A NEW MAST STANDING WHERE "OUR" MAST STANDS, BECOME ICONIC,  WORTHY OF NATIONAL IMPORTANCE AND POSTERITY?  I THINK THE ANSWER IS EMPHATICALLY NO !  AT BEST ANY NEW MAST [OR HEAVILY REPAIRED MAST] WOULD BE PAROCHIAL TO THOSE WHO ACTUALLY SERVED IN HMS GANGES [JUST LIKE THE PRESENT MAST IS] AND WOULD THEREFORE HAVE A LIMITED LIFE SPAN FOR ANOTHER 41 YEARS APPROXIMATELY.  BY THAT TIME, THOSE WHO WERE THE LAST TO JOIN GANGES WHEN AGED 16 WOULD BE IN THEIR  MID TO LATE 80's.  IN THOSE 4 1YEARS, HOW MANY MORE TIMES WILL MONEY HAVE TO BE THROWN AT A CONTINUOUS MAINTENANCE PROGRAMME AND WHO WILL PAY FOR SOMETHING WHICH WILL BECOME LESS AND LESS RELEVANT TO THE NATION, TO THE NAVY, TO THE PEOPLE OF SOUTHEAST SUFFOLK.  BETTER BY FAR THAT WE SEE THE MAST DISMANTLED, SELLING OFF PIECES OF IT TO THOSE WHO ARE "RELEVANT DEVOTEES", AND LET THE MEMORY OF IT [AND THE ESTABLISHMENT PROPER] BE IN OUR HEARTS AND MINDS.

Have you ever considered the size [height] of our mast with the height of other things?  Well I thought just for interest I would compare our mast with seven other things to put it in context.  I am going to use the following artefacts.

The tallest building in the world which is in Kuwait, currently being built @ 3285.28 feet The longest ship in the world stood upright, which is a tanker the Jahre Viking @ 1503 feet The highest bridge in the world, British designed, in France @ Millau @ 1125 feet The Eiffle Tower @ 1075 feet The Spinnaker Tower Portsmouth @ 559.47 feet The tallest sailing ship in the world, the Russian Sedov @ 177.22 feet Nelsons Column @ 169 feet

Our mast, as you will recall, is 143 feet.

I am using an approximate scale of  3285.28 feet = 6" resulting in Ganges Mast being 0.26" tall, just over a ¼"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

© Godfrey [Jeff] Dykes, member of the Solent Division although not now active since moving to Suffolk {less than 40 miles from the old Ganges site} from Southsea,  and a disillusioned ex-member of the Association.